Was there a "Gap"?


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John Hext-Fremlin wrote:

    Dear Mr. Kimball; I didn't realize that you have been tied up with other
jobs like the previous hurricane in the us; and as I've said I will try to
keep my emails to a minimum without worrying you too much. You asked me the
question: "What question would I like answered first"; and the answer to
your question is: "What life forms existed in the pre-Adamite world if there
was one; and indeed what does the pre-adamic fossil record indicate in the
way of life forms?" Were for example some of the supposed pre-Adamite fallen
angels of Satan for example ? as Gaines Johnson
suggests. I would most definitely have a problem with this theory and indeed
the gap theory as a whole. The reason why I have a problem with it is
because in Genesis chapter one it says that: "Every thing that the lord
created was very good". The question I put to you here is: "How can that
"very good" be good except for Satan that I have created"? Surely this would
be an untruth wouldn't it? In my view the easiest way to understand genesis
1 v 1 is to take it at its word and not add or strain the meaning of it. Gap
theorists also suggest that some of the extinct animals that were supposedly
destroyed i.e. and all life were recreated like for example the mammoth only
to be made extinct again at the time of the flood and or "post flood rapid
ice age". John.


Dear John,

It has been another really bad week for us here in Florida. Last Thursday I
put up the hurricane page I told you about (it's at
http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/hurricane.html ), and it went out of date
immediately! Over the weekend we got hit by the fourth killer storm in six
weeks; this one, Hurricane Jeanne, drowned 1,100 people in Haiti before it
came here and wrecked our infrastructure. My neighborhood didn't do too
badly--I guess that Charley and Frances destroyed everything that was going
to be destroyed--but as I write this, my parents, who live two and a half
miles away, have gone for five days without electricity. If you can find out
what we did to deserve all this divine retribution, please let us know!

Anyway, I did get the industry-technology table you sent.  As for pre-Adamic
life, I haven't thought much about the forms they might have taken.  That's
speculation better suited for science-fiction writers, or people like Dougal
Dixon, a Scottish evolutionist who wrote a book in the 1980s called "After
Man," full of attractive pictures of what he thinks animals will look like
50 million years from now.  You may remember that I said that the moho, the
border between the earth's crust and mantle, was probably the original
surface of the earth, so if any fossils from that time exist, they would be
many miles underground.  Moreover, they have probably been erased by the
intense pressure and heating that far down--we don't find fossils in
metamorphic rock for the same reason--or by more recent activities that have
eroded the crust, particularly Noah's Flood.

Time to go to work now; have a pleasant weekend!

Take Care

John,
I love you as a Brother in Christ but you are still not getting the big
point that disproves the Neanderthal were not in the family line of Adam.
DNA extracted from the remains of more than three (3) Neanderthals
CONCLUSIVELY show that they are NOT from the same GENETIC ancestry as you or I.

That FACT FALSIFIES the thesis that they were some branch-off of our human
species; it falsifies any notion that they were some deformed line of man.
Had they been what you claim, a branch-off of Adam's family tree, then their
DNA sequence would show the same ancestry. It does not! What you have in the Neanderthal is a completely genetically different line of species. They did
NOT have Adam as a common father. Any credible explanation for them MUST be framed within the context of this overshadowing reality.

End of subject, end of lecture, get a life!!! (smile).
God bless you....good to hear from you.
Gaines

(From Gaines Johnson. www.kjbbible.org)

    Hi Gaines I enjoyed the links page that you sent me on Neanderthal.
There seems to be a division of opinion as to whether or not Neanderthals
were fully Human . My personal view is that their different genes or dna were
affected by the ice age and rickets but I was not there at the time. Best
regards John.

 

Creation to the Romans
Were there Cave Men in Historic times?
The Last British Neanderthals?
Catastrophism and Cave Men
Miscellaneous
The Flood
Chronologies

RELATED EMAILS:


Subject :  Re: Post flood ice age and Gunnar Heinsohn.



At 04:04 PM 03/20/2005 +0000, you wrote:
    Dear Larry many thanks of the phone discussion of a few hours ago; I
found it most stimulating and indeed most fascinating and interesting.
However here is the rather lengthy email I sent to Mr. Ian Lawton author of
"Genesis Unveiled". He is however a "Velekovskian evolutionist" and I know
the tone of my first email to him was rather abrupt. But I found that in
the introduction to his book there was a very sharp attack on young earth
creationists who hold to the date of 4004 BC for creation so naturally
enough I responded accordingly as you will see below. I have since then
received another email from him which is perhaps a little bit more
reconciliatory which I will also send to you after this one today (Sunday).
Here's what he has to say. John.

    From: "Ian Lawton" <il@ianlawton.com>
To: "John Hext-Fremlin" <johnhextfremlin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Post flood ice age and Gunnar Heinsohn.
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:32:55 -0000

Dear Mr. Hext-Fremlin

I tend to find that people who are comfortable with their beliefs do not try
to ram them down other people's throats. They are also somewhat more patient
in waiting for an answer from someone who is clearly sufficiently busy that
responding to such arrant nonsense is not a major priority. BTW, I am
intrigued to know exactly what sort of response you thought you were going
to get. Did you expect me to change my views just because you throw a
ridiculous chronology at me? Have you ever heard of rational debate? Do you
really think that 'God' put the fossils of dinosaurs on earth to test us?

I have given you the respect of a response, but please do not contact me
again unless a) you have calmed down and b) you have got something useful to
say.

Regards, Ian Lawton

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hext-Fremlin"
<johnhextfremlin@hotmail.com>
To: <il@ianlawton.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 3:20 PM
Subject: Post flood ice age and Gunnar Heinsohn.


    Dear Sir I have purchased your book "Genesis unveiled" . First let me
tell you that I do not like your criticism of young earth creationists and
that what you propose is utterly absurd and I do know from your own
admission that you are a uniformitarian evolutionist with the greatest
respect > I do happen to be a follower of Bishop Ussher and agree with his
date of 4004 BC for creation and the flood 1656 later in 2348 BC followed by
the post flood ice age (and there was only one ice age on the creation model)
in 2242 BC at the time of the dispersion from Babel. Gunnar Heinsohn's time
line for ancient Europe is as follows: Homo erectus 2000 BC; Neanderthal 1500
BC ;Cro-Magnon 1400 BC ; the bronze age 900 BC and the iron age 600 BC . If
you would care to look at my website which is www.johnhextfremlin.com you
will find some creation history pages that date Parthelon contemporary with
the formorians (the last Neanderthals in Europe) arrive annomundi 2520 or
1484 BC ; Brutus first king of the ancient Britons 1104 BC (Bronze
industry) on Britain and am 2859 or 1145 BC the nemedians with the bronze age
on Ireland and the Milisians arrive in 3500 AM or 504 BC with the pre-Roman
iron age or iron (A) 220 BC the Latene Celts with iron (B) and the Picts
arrive in Scotland in 100 BC or 3904 annomundi for our purposes here. Now
you can ignore this if you like ; but there are people out there like
Professor Gunnar Heinsohn a more radical scholar than Velekovskey whom I
am also a follower of coincidentally and insists that ancient chronologies
should be reduced even more and so do
http://consciousevolution.com/Rennes/arthurchapter5.

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Spiritual Notes on Gap Theories by David Hume

John,
 
One of the major problem with Modern Dispensational Scenarios, are that whenever they deal with divine fixed time periods in the scripture they put in gaps of indefinite lengths to support their views.
 
The Lord knows how long a year is , after all he gave us the cosmos to reconcile the lengths of days, nights and seasons.
 
During my journey with Christ , I was exposed to erroneous dispensational Gap theories, that twist isolated verses from their context to support a particular view.
 
It kept bothering me because when one tries to determine the length of a mythical gap, everything becomes speculative.  The history of  men proclaiming the exact date  of Christ's return in the 20th century reveals how fraught with error the gap theories are. I wasted a lot of time chasing this myth and when I discovered , I had been duped from the pulpit I abandoned those views. 
 
The starting point was when I accepted Mathew Henry's Christ centered view of the seventy weeks of Daniel. That all had to do with Christ and not some mythical Anti-Christ.
 
Having been involved developing software for mainframe computers , the modern theories of the mark of the beast and the revived Roman Empire appealed to me at one time.
 
I downloaded a online bible (onlinebible.net) , and with it came a work by Phillip Mauro "The seventy weeks of Daniel and the great tribulation". At first I was aprehensive about reading it , because I surmised it was just another Gap theorist making some more wild guesses.  Eventually I decided to take a peek , and to my suprise it was exactly the opposite.  Since then I totally abandoned 360 day lunar years and wrote a treatise upon the seventy weeks. When I circulated it , some one accused me of being a preterist , not knowing what the term meant, I searched the web for the meaning and found Tod Dennis's preteristarchive.com. 
 
This began a new learning curve, because now I take cognisance of the audience and the setting when reading the gospels. Instead of shifting it millenia into the future and applying it to the modern generation, I began to apply it to the generation in Christ's presence at the time.
 
One cannot take the Apostle John's Revelation (the source of so many modern erroneous views ) and shift the understanding of it away from the knowledge of the Infant Church in the Roman Province of Asia in the first century AD. To my mind it was written prior to the destruction wrought by the Romans (Ad66-73) when the temple was still standing. 
 
Revelation 11:1  And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 
 
Finnis Jennings Dakes was the modern father of the Creation Gap and primeaval flood theory and also the Pre-Adamic race theory. Between him , Clarence Larkin (Dispensational Truth) and Scofield they have led the modern generation astray. I term it a American Pentecostal Delusion, which perverts the gospel into modern materialism. I have abandoned them having once been under their hypnotic repetitive phraseology form of self hypnosis.
 
Revelation 12:1 ∂  And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars(Joseph's Dream of Jacob's Family):  And she being with child (Christ) cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon (Edom -Herod), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads(Under Roman Empire  Authority). And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven( Abrahams Seed-the four claimants to the royal birthright (Joseph (Manasseh-Ephraim) Benjamin(Saul)  and Judah), and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.  And she brought forth a man child(Christ), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 
Matthew 2:18  In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children(Joseph-Benjamin), and would not be comforted, because they are not.
 
1 Chronicles 5:1  Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his fatherís bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Josephís:)
 
Herod the Great was a descendant of Antipater an Idumean(the descendants of the hated Esau who sold his birthright for a mess of pottage). They obtained the Throne and the sceptre departed from the Kings of Judah(the Royal Seed-lineage of Christ), with the permision of the Conglomerate Beast composed of the territories the preceeding  Egyptian,Babylonian, Medo Persian, Greek(Empires). Each swallowing up the other in order until the four beasts of Daniel became one composite beast. The body parts of each making up the beast of Revelation. Herod tried to exterminate any claim to his throne, The infant Jesus  was spared by his parents fleeing Herod's intentions.
 
 
Revelation 12:6  And the woman(Infant Church circ Ad66) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 
 
The Gap theorist's shift this casting down all the way back to the Genesis Creation Account , by isolating a single verse from the context.  This event occured at the destruction of Jerusalem, when the daily sacrifice and the levitical Priesthood was abolished. It marks the end of the Mosaic Covenant and its curse being fulfilled, and The New Covenant (New World-New Creation) taking its place.
 

Excerpt from Josephus War of the Jews Book 6 Chapter 5 section 3.

 

(296) So these publicly declared that the signal predicted the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the twenty-first day of the month of Artemisios [Iyyar], (Niese: June 8, Capellus: May 21) (297) a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those who saw it, (298) and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen (299) running about among the clouds, and surrounding the cities.

 

Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian

"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour.

 

Isaiah 66:14  And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.∂  For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

 

From Isaiah and these Historians we have the record of what happened in the Heavens at the time.(Ad 66-70) of Christís return in Judgement. The war was on two fronts one in the Heavens visible to all in the Promised Land, the other on the earth with the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem.

 

Revelation 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him(those who rejected Christ for Caesar): and all kindreds of the earth(Palestine)  shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

John 19:15  But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar (The Human God).

 

So John without an understanding of Covenant Theology , the Gap theorists only bring confusion. Preterists (Past Fulfillment) are much maligned by Futurists , as though we are attempting to remove their hope in Christ rapturing them before the proverbial "shit hits the fan". But what they fail to see is the Hope of a Better Resurrection when we depart from the this earthly tabernacle we are now clothed in.

 

 

On the subject of the Six day's , I am not totally convinced that they are 24 hour Days, because of the following verse :

 

Genesis1:14 ∂  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.  And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 
Up until this verse the preceeding verses have no means of measuring a fixed 24 hour Day, because the Sun and Moon were not in existence yet. 


 

Revelation 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 
 
Are they Cosmic Days of immeasurable Length , I dont know? There is a case that the length is determined by the Solar Day, and The Lunar Night and applies to what preceeds it.  Also certain types of plant life are seasonal and the period from germination to appearance can be longer than a twenty four hour day. Gestation Periods also effect this , and one has to remain rational when expounding scripture.
 
Genesis 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
 
Genesis 5:5  And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
 
Literal days in the Genesis Account are subject to interpretation , as in the case of Adam who lived longer than a twenty four hour day.
 
Revelation 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
To me the first resurrection is a metaphor for Christ, and the thousand years defines the length of our Day in Glory, and we shall live forever , longer than Adam ever did.
 
2 Peter 3:8  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 
 
So to harmonise the day's to a literal twenty four hours , seems to me to be placing on a limit on the timeframes of the Genesis account. One can take divine inspiration to an extreme that was never intended and turn scripture into myth. Every living thing on this planet is in a symbiotic relationship with each other, this alone is enough to prove  omniscient intelligent design and the validity of the Genesis Account. The fact that man is the last to arrive , when a smorgasboard is already there to sustain him supports the scriptures claim.
 
I may have written more than I intended , but  it reveals my mindset to you which is the result of a Spritual conversion in 1981 and the varied experiences with The Lord Jesus Christ since then.
 
I would like to send you two documents I wrote , one on Daniels Seventy weeks , the other on the resurrection if you would like me to.
 
Yours in Christ
 
Dave
 
 
 

 
On 12 February 2011 02:07, john hext-fremlin <johnhextfremlin@googlemail.com> wrote:

Were Dinosaurs extinct before Adam?

JXF

Hi Damien using the Morrow/Ansty Chronology which for my purposes I'd
translate to Ussherian chronology; Do you think the Dinosaurs became
extinct prior to the six literal 24 hour days of "Recreation" before
Adam?

Thus do you believe they the dinosaurs became extinct in the supposed
Genesis Gap Theory of Genesis one verse one and one verse Two; or did
they become extinct (which I believe) was the world wide event of the
Genesis Flood?

In conclusion it begs the question :- "If Noah's Flood did not
exterminate all life on earth; then what would Lucifer's Flood have
done? John

Damien

Sorry, I can't help you, John.

I know nothing about - don't believe in - any "Recreation" (except the spiritual rebirth that Jesus Christ earned for us).
I know nothing about - don't believe in - any Genesis Gap.
I know nothing about - don't believe in - any Lucifer's Flood

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Atlantean Civilisation and GapTheory

NOT ONE GAP, BUT TWO... (Patrick Robinson's theories)

PR to JHF

Hi John,
 
Sorry for the delay. I had problems with my Windows 2000, and had to format and update to XP. Then the headaches of getting everything back to some kind of order took some time.
 
 I do understand why you are having a problem with my teaching. You just can't get past the "GAP" that is so obvious to me, and to many other teachers and preachers. You are correct in what you are saying, that you believe that I am teaching at least 3 different creations, for am teaching exactly that very thing. The first one occuring at Gen.1:1, then, the gap of an undeterminate time occuring between verse 1 and 2. There could have been eons of time between these two verses. Plenty of time for Satan to rule, plenty of time for the dinosaurs to exist. Then, either lucifer rebelled and was cast down at that time, or, he was cast down just after, during the Atlantean age which is the first re-creation during chapter 1. This is when I believe that the first Mammals, i.e. Wooly Mammoths, Sabre tooth tigers, etc, and your neanderthals would be placed. Elohim, which is a plural form of divinity, and could just as accuratly be "Angels", "Created" male and female and called them both ADAM. They were given dominion over the whole earth, and were so blessed by "Elohim". However, the Atlantean peoples were fooling around with genetics, using crystal power, mercury power, and no telling what else they fooled around with that could have and would have destroyed the earth if "Jehovah" Elohim, THe God over the "angels" hadn't stepped in, destroying atlantis in 3 waves of destruction. It is possible that there could have been survivors left, but none of the great mammals, would survive. If Jehovah Elohim, the God over all gods or angels, had let them continue what they were doing, this earth would have been totally destroyed. So he took them out. Then stepping in to get the job done right, "Jehovah" elohim "Formed", a word which is also different in the Hebrew than the word, "Created", that Elohim did, He, Jehovah elohim Formed Adam out of the earth, and breathed into him a breath of life from God. THis made him a total different humanoid than any thing that was before him. Adam, the male, was put in the garden of eden. At that time, Lucifer had already fallen and was satan. Adam, our ancestor, then named all of the animals, which are the current mammals, reptiles, etc. that now exist. He also named the ape, and if he was related to the ape, then surely an ape would do as a helpmate, but Adam wouldn't accept that, so Jehovah put him to sleep, taking out a rib, and formed Eve, brought her to him. Then comes the strangest statement. He said, Now at last, presuming a long awaited arrival, he had found his helpmate. She is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh, so she shall be called woman, not Adam as in the first chapter. for she was taken from Adam, henceforth, shall a man leave his father and mother, shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh. How in the world did he know what a father, mother, or children were if there wasn't anything before them. Now, Adam, before eve was created, walked and talked to Jehovah for an also underterminate time, and if He, Jehovah, told Adam of prior civilizations, told of their mistakes, told of their family life, then Adams statement would make sense, he could have known what mothers, fathers, and children were. He was warned of their mistakes, and he knew that they, or at most of them were destroyed. It seems to me that the only thing that keeps you from understanding this is your unwillingness to accept that there could have been a gap between verse 1 and 2 of Genesis. 
 
I am sorry, but Bishop Usher's reconing of the chronology back to the creation of Adam, is, and has been proven to be a total inaccurate asessment. As I told you earlier, when fathers and sons are given, sometimes a son could be a grandson, or even a great, great grandson. There is just as many scientists, or even more so, that have proven that the last Ice age ended around 10,000 BC, or 12,000 years ago. Now I am not saying that there could have been a increasing and retreating of glaciers for many hundreds of years after 10,000 BC.
 
No one will ever be able to determine if the "Was without form and void" is any more accurate than it, "Became, or came to pass, waste and desolate". Look it up in any hebrew dictionary. Jeremiah sheds light on it though. For he sees, in a past tence" a time when there were cities, inhabitated by intelligent beings, Yet there was no ADAM yet. He then uses the exact same Hebrew words as in Genesis 1 verse 1 and 2, and he said that the earth, "Became, a waste and desolation". It makes perfect sense. Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself, just make sure that you use an interlinear that has Strongs numbers attached with each word, so you can look up the definitions in the Hebrew dictionary. 
 
Yes, the gap definately occurs. Yes, chapters 1 and 2 depict 2 separate and distinct creations, created by different creators. And there was a time before the first creation in chapter 1, when there was cities, that were inhabitated by intelligent beings, probably Satan and his cohorts, yet no Adams, male and female, had been created yet, and our descendant Adam, and his wife Eve, were even further off in the future.
 
If you would allow the Holy Spirit, who was sent to us as our comforter, discern what is truth, you would see. You do have to put away all of your preconceived notions to the side, and read genesis, getting definitions for the words, then you have to see what is so obvious to many seekers of truth. You have to also know who the enemy is and what he is doing. As always, our fight is not against the physical, but against principalities, powers, and evil wickedness that are in the air about us. Satan don't want these truths to be revealed, and he will use any and everything to keep them under wraps. But, God Almighty will reveal mysteries in these last days, that were hidden from the foundation of this world.
 
By the way, the things that I am and have been teaching on are not some new ideas. ever since the knowledge explosion in the mid 1800's, God has been revealing these truths to men that were seeking truth. There are many books and teachers that have been proclaiming the very same truths that I now teach on. God has been refining the teaching, and bringing us ever closer to the truth, but, I am but a disciple, "Learner", of Jesus the Christ. Teaching what he has put on my heart to teach, and as he guides me into more truths, I will continue to teach them to any and all those that are being called, it's just that, probably the only ones that will truly get it and understand, are the chosen few. I pray that you are included in that group.
 
With Love in Christ,
Patrick


 

JXF to PR

Hi Patrick many thanks for this email and I must hand it to you that you are very thorugh in your studies of this subject I have to admit that you could be right and me keeping anopen mind that there could have been a gap. I know Mr Bryce G Clarke from Bethelcog,org teaches the gap theory and there seem to be many diffrent versions of it. So Basicly I would assume from your evidence and indeed in summary and conclusion that we first have one. The creation of the heavens and the earth along with Lucifer and his angels who had "Cities" and presided over the Reptilian creation of Dinosaurs >2. Wehave the six literal 24 hour days of creation as the model for the working week  which is the Atlantian civilization and then enter Neanderthal/Cromgnon and the mamals having been created before day six and these were told to Replenish the earthafter Satan's fall. 3 Anew creation of mamls and reptiles amphibians birds &c created from the dust of the ground just as Adam was but after Adam ws created and Eve was created from Adam's rib. So let's see if I've got this right> One Atlantis destroyed in three waves of destruction. One:- the Genesis gap The dinosaurs destroyed 65 000,000 years ago . Two . An Ice age under a water vapour  cannopy. Three The world wide flood of Noah coursed by the melting of the ice sheets the colapse of the water vapour canopy and the break up of the fountains of the great "Deep" and so if there were Atlantian surviivors they could have been finally destroyed along with any remnents of the Mammoths sabre tooth tigres &c in the flood of Noah which was also world wide in destruction. I would add however that the colapse of the watervapour canopy could have led to a nother post flood Rapid Ice Age if Oard is correct or for that matter DW Pattern (The Biblical Flood and the Ice epoch) Just maybe then on the face of it the Nephilim could well have been the last remnent of the Atlantean civilization hence the cities that Jerimia dicribes.. The Neanderthal although diffrent dna structure were degenerate humans because flowere have been found in their burial graves in Iraque. As a matter of the mos t profound interest the Australian abouriginals have the typical Neanderthal charateristics  so were there any Neanderthal survivors? Just maybe. And could the mighty men of renown or giants be what John Denton calls Neanderthal=Nephilim. The answer to that question and inconclusion I would respectfully say that this author was'nt there at the time but never the less apossibility. You have certainly made this email very intersting for my study of it. Can I also interest you in one or both of my Industries tables for Brtain Ireland and the Middles Eastern Bible Lands (After Babel). Would Patrick you place the creation of Adam and Eve say at 10,000 BC? and maybe you'd like to do the same for me with a table of  events creation &c. Very respectfully yours and yours very faithfully. John

 

From: John hext-fremlin
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2019 2:38 PM
To: Darrell White
Subject: The supposed Atlantean civilization/Creation according to Patrick Robinson

Hi Darrell I have had some dealings with Patrick Robinson after having dug up some old archive emails from His ideas are not to say the least of it very strange and coming as it does with the Fall of Satan Supposedly Genesis 1verse 1 and 1verse2 (The supposed Genesis Gap theory) Then in the supposed 6 24 hour days Recreation he proposes that the creation of man (Atlantean creation) in God's image WAS different to the creation of Adam where he places the creation of land animals from the dust of the ground in fact after he is supposed to have created Adam. He dates the Atlantean  creation supposedly from 10000 BC to 4004 BC (So at least he uses Ussher for Adam's creation, He reckons that the "last" ice age ended around 10,000 BC and an atlantean creation of supposed hunter gatherers who are told to "subdue the earth " in this particular time frame of the supposed 6 literal days by his reckoning.

 

Thus I have refuted and rejected his ideas  (although bezar but at the same time interesting) with my /our chronology from the stone Bronze and iron  ages/industries on the pdf that I sent to you Darrell and have coincidently sent to Patrick Robinson who also has said there "could have been an ice age immediately after the flood" which we know to be fact. He also reckons that the Great Pyramid was built by Seth. Interestingly Patrick is a confessed Anglo Israelist. Question is where does he get the idea of three creations from in the Genesis account? He believes in the Book of Enoch for example and the books of Jubilees not to mention the lost books of Adam and Eve. However I am very clear that the Atlantean civilization was in South America (As I have the Books you sent me on the subject perhaps shortly after 2191 BC. Conclusion . I find his so-called Pre-adamic conundrum very strange, but does he get some of his ideas from the books of Enoch and maybe Adam and Eve? the answer to which is that I have no idea, John

 

On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 6:37 PM Darrell White wrote:

Hi John,

 

As I recall, Gap theory often suggests that the creation in Genesis 1 was different from Genesis 2:7.

 

I have read the book of Jubilees a number of times and I am sure it is not in there.

I have glanced at Enoch a few time and don't believe it is there, but have not read it completely.

I have never seen the books of Adam and eve.

 

I suspect, being a gap theory advocate, that he just presumed that the dating of the last Ice age of about 10,000 BC by evolutionists was correct and if so, then the Atlantis myths would likely correspond to that Ice Age melt down, since it would be before Adam by the gap assumptions.  But neither the gap theory or evolutionary dating of Ice Ages hold weight, so there is no need of them in Biblical Chronology.   Early Egyptian history (ATF) speaks of Atlas  ruling in NW Africa on the Atlantic Ocean.  It is thus much more logical that Atlantis got its name from Atlas, son on Sidon.  The books I mentioned to you provide the best match up for the city of Atlantis that I have seen so far.

 

But it would be best just to ask him how he came up with it. 

 

From: John hext-fremlin 
Date: Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: The supposed Atlantean civilization/Creation according to Patrick Robinson To: Darrell White

 

Hi Darrell I could ask him how he came by the idea but perhaps on the other hand I could show you some of the archive correspondence I have had with Patrick Robinson which might explain the situation better than I could explain it. He even sent me an attatchment of Dake's tine line which is nonsense in response to my sending him our pdf on the stone and bronze ages which to me is a much more credible explanation than any supposed gap theory nonsense. Indeed as I have said to Patrickm"That it needs to be bourne in mind in this connection that any conventional dating exeeding 4000 BC (ie 6000 years ago is here rejected by young earth creationists and this author and therefore could not possiblybe matched up with historical dating on the Ussher time line. As for the great pyramid supposedly built by Seth must be a figment of Patrick's immagination. Anyway Darrell I will ask Patrick Robinson where he gets his ideas from and many thanks for your interesting explanation by the way and will look for some of the correspondense between Patrick and my self which I think you will find interesting. Meanwhile Darrell Good hunting the truth is out there and best wishes John

 

 

 

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PR TO JHF
 

Hi John,
 
I must say that I was surprised by your response in this email, and pleasantly at that. In going over your summation, of my response to your email, you are correct in almost every item. I agree with your response about the possible ice age, after the flood of Noah. That would be probably be caused by the increasing and receding polar ice caps. The main thing that I would seem to differ with you on, is where you place the Neanderthal, and your relating them to the Nephalim. More on that later. In recollection of what your scientists came against me with, I would have you seriously consider that the Apocryphal books, which were included in the original KJV version of 1611, along with many other books that although not canonized by the "Leaders" of the church, a great many of them I have read and believe that some are definitely inspired by GOD. I even have several leaves from the first edition of the KJV, that prove that the apocryphal books were originally included. It was not until 1885, I believe it was, that through the influence of the Puritans, these books were taken out. 
 
 Now, if I were God, and I wanted my Word to be published, I don't think I would choose the number 66 for the books he wanted included in His Word. That number seems too related to man and our Lord, for His Word, would choose a different number. There are other books that are even mentioned in the bible, and yet were not included in the apocryphal books. The book of Jasper, and Jubilees are directly mentioned. Jude, directly quotes from the book of Enoch, when he said, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints". 
 
I truly believe that God would have us seek and learn from many of the earlier writings of the Church, and trust the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. We need not allow some committee tell us what we can and can't use as for guidance and inspiration, that is why the Holy Spirit was given to us, to help us discern truth, and to the reason I bring these things up, is that the Nephalim are given a greater description in 1 Enoch, than in anywhere else that has yet to be found. First of all, Enoch was supposed to have written 366 books, before God took him, and, the implication is, that God took him to another place, not up into heaven, at least not at the first. 
 
I cannot agree that the Nephalim are in any way related to the Neanderthals, the Cro-Magnon, or any other humanoid being. For In Enoch, which is usually designated 1 Enoch, distinguishing it from the later apocalypse, "The Secrets of Enoch", known as 2 Enoch. I will quote this section word for word, Enoch begins,: Chapter 7 verse 1: It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful. v.2: And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other: Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children. ... Then in Verse 10: Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabitated; teaching them sorcery, incantation, and the dividing of roots and trees. V.11. And they conceiving, brought forth giants. V.12. Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them; V.13. When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them; v.14. And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood. v.15 Then the earth reproved the unrighteous. The next chapter goes on to tell about how these angels taught men to make weapons, taught the making of jewelry, of painting the faces for beauty.
 
Then it says in ch.8 v.9 "And men, being destroyed, cried out, and their voice reached to heaven. 
 
The reason that I am bringing this up, is that these giants, could not have been neanderthal, or any humanoid type being. 300 cubits, using the sacred cubit of 25 inches, comes to 625 feet tall, and using the short cubit of 20 inches still be 500 feet tall these giants were surely "Men of Renown", for it would be hard to take that image out of your mind. Also, because these beings were created by angels, their spirits would have to be eternal in nature.
 
This is my take on all of this. After God heard the cry of the Atlantean race, knowing that they in no way could defeat these giants, and because of their own degenerate lives, fooling around with genetics, and with such powers that were so awesome that if He, God, didn't intervene, in this situation, not only would the giants eat so many people, even those that worshipped the true God, The Atlanteans themselves would destroy the planet if they were allowed to continue. 
 
Now, the Most High, Jehovah Adonai. after he flooded this earth, destroying the giants and most of the creatures that couldn't inhabit this earth with our civilization. He chained up in darkness the third of the angels that were cast down with Satan. There still, however, remained the eternal spirits of these giants. I truly believe that they are the ones that satan uses a his demonic and evil spiritual influences, to come against those that are in true faith, following Jesus one step at a time, every minute of every day. 
 
So to conclude this, the Neanderthal, or any other so called Cave Man, were probably degenerate because they weren't created by God. Either they were mutations that the Atlantean civilization caused by fooling with genetics, or they were created by Satan after he fell and dwelt in the cities before there was an Adam. No One will ever no the full and absolute truth, until we get there and are taught by Jesus and God Himself. 
 
 The Australian aboriginals, I am sure are not related nor descended from the Neanderthal. They could however be descendant of Cain, or of Ham, for in the flood of Noah, all the races were a part of the 8 survivors, and the word Ham means dark skinned, also the curse that Noah put on him, was that he and his descendants were to be slaves to his brothers. 
 
We, however are under this age of grace, and no one race is excluded if they are in Christ. We are in Christ if he is in us. We get him in us by this. "For by the heart man believeth, and by his mouth proclamation, literally, declaration is made unto salvation"
 
I did receive the tables, and I thank you for that. I don't actually have one made, which gives me something to work on now, but I have attached two Charts. One is a Power point file, and if you don't have access to PPT, I also included a JPG file of the chart itself. This chart was done by Finis Jennings Dake. Now, Mr. Dake believed, and taught a pre-adamic civilization, and although there are a few items on it that I question and am not sure I agree with him on. There is so much wonderful work that Dake did, and just because I can't agree with some of his points, I do know that you can't throw "The Baby Out with the Bathwater", to coin a phrase of my teacher. I hope that you find this email and the charts informative. They are very easy to use to use to teach others of God's history and future of this world