The Longevity of the Patriarchs   JXF,  Dan Janzen
I think that non-patriarch longevity information may make more of an impact  in apologetics.

John Hext-Fremlin wrote:
Yes Dan I'll send the link again and as for "persistence " It's rather like
Mike Fischer says "I've got "Truckloads of that" Perhaps as well as being a
bit of a "Dates Man"; which I guess I'll go down in the history books of the
young earth creation movement as. When you say "secular People not mentioned
in the bible" Can you give me a definition of what you meand by secular
people because the SIS surely is a secular organization is'nt it? This is
why when you said secular information I immediately thought of the SIS and
in this connection with John Bimson. It might help matters a bit more if you
can give me a link to click on and then I can look at it. Hope you're reay
for this one and here it is again:-
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/epn_3_bimson.html John
get my drift Dan?

John Hext-Fremlin wrote:
Dan I've given you the link for the bimson papers; and I still would like
toknow if the info or some of it is of any help to you about Abraham being
place in mb1 ro EBI and Allbright's placement of him. Can you respond to
thid. John
 

KEYWORD CLUES FOR LONGEVITY  STUDY

>Your doing your key word searches wrong. You can search for such key words
>such as "biblical patriarchs" or patriarchs by itself, longevity, "table of
>nations", Gen. or "Genesis 10", "creation science", "biblical chronology",
>ham, shem, and japheth, "oral traditions", legends, inscriptions, tablets,
>documents, manuscripts, "long-lived", "secular chronology", "creation
>apologetics" or apologetics by itself, "creation evidence", "creation
>evangelism", "long life span/s", "long reign", mythology, or mythological,
>India, Indian, Sanskrit, chinese, china, babylon, babylonian, sumerian,
>assyrian, asshur, Egypt, egyptian, nimrod, semiramis, ancient in quotes in
>front of most any of the above words, history, "historical records" or
>historical and records by themselves, antidilivian, "first age", "golden
>age". You get the drift. All of these in combination with one another in a
>series of 2 to 5 key words strung together and dont forget the quotes. I am
>sure that you will be
>intregued by the results but it is a process

John Hext-Fremlin wrote:
Dan you need to tell me exactly what you mean by "Non patriarch longevity"
and exactly which people you are talking about and then I can go to the link
and look it up. By the way did you get that industries review I sent you
from Darrell? You remember some time ago I got a cursery endorsement from
Bill Cooper on the date of 2247 BC. I also sent you some chronology for some
of the people groups who came to Britain. It is interesting that there seems
to be some confusion between the despersion from Babel and the World survey
in the days of Peleg at his birth ie 2247 Darrell informs me is the date for
the world Survey. Now we are getting very close in this conection because
this date is exactly 101 after the flood . The despersion date (Not to be
confused according to Darrell is 2191 BC and the Tower of Babel took 43
years to build and was destroyed in 2191BC The Date according to Darrell
for the founding of Babel is 2234 BC so this solves a lot of problems in my
view. I particularly like Darrell's revised date for the Ice age 2260 untill
1500 BC (Very close to my date for the ice age; but I have to confess I like
his much better. It is interesting to note in this connection that what HLH
calles the "Mesolithic period" or rephrase that and say mesolithic hunter
Gatherers passing through Britain at this time ie the "World Survey "
according to Darrell is valied so what ever happens I'm going to have to go
back to the drawing board and make another re-evaluation so maybe the
earliest Neanderthals passed through Britain at this time plus some later
ones in 2035. Certainly something to think about. This means we have threed
dates after the flood or perhaps arrival dates in the Isles 1. The
palaeolithic/mesolithic industries (world survey) 2247 2/ 2094 Samothes
early celts Neolithic and chalcolithic industries. 3 The neanderthal arrive
England in 2035 BC at the same time as Partholan on Ireland 4 Nemed arrives
in Irelasnd 1705 BC (Darrell) 5 Firbolgues 1289 BC (According to Mike
Gascoigne these were Bronze technology 5 Tuatha de Dannans if my memory
serves me correctly on this chronology about 1252 withthe Milesians arriving
1055 to 1015 BC However Darrell informs me that Gaytholos and Scotta were
concurrent with the exodus 1491 BC. He further says that if the exodus is
considered Early Bronze then they took this technology with them to Spain
and then to Ireland. My point here is would this technology have reached
Ireland in 1491 or would it have reached Ireland and britain nearly 200
years later at 1289 BC? Now this is a lot to think about so if you could
investigate this and give me an evaluation of when you think the technology
arrived on Ireland Iwould be very greatful . I would also need to
re-evaluate when the Iron technology reached Ireland . Have you any ideas
about when the iron technology for making swords &c reahed Ireland assuming
that bill Cooper used LXX annomundi dates and subtracted from 4004 ; while
at my neck of the woods I'll see what I can find on "Non biblical
Patriarchs" if you can give me some idea of what I need to look for. Cheers
John

Lets keep things in context--the Biblical context...


Technology was lost and then reintroduced or just held by some people and
others traded for what they could not produce.  There were all kinds of
different arrangements which involved very advanced people and very
primative people who were often taken as slaves, etc.  When an industry
arrived at a certain location should not be our focus but when a particular
people group arrived and what technologies they had is of interest to us. 
The first people that arrived world wide must have had access to the very
best technologies.  The ancients had a method of hardening copper that is
not known to this day and this would have been superior to iron which rusts.

Subject :  Re: Biblical chronology and Longevity




Ok, there is a book you must get called Civilizations of the Ice
Age--www.genesisveracity.com that explains that the Formores were Canaanites
(proto Phoecians?) who probably were the result of a Canaanite colony that
settled there presumably by sailing there.  That is what makes the most
sense.  The author says that Partholon was decended from Sythian ancestry
from north of Mesopotamia and he moved to Egypt and picked up followers
there and then sailed to Ireland.

Ok, to me it looks like we might be on the verge of solving a mystery that
has haunted us for some time due to your persistance.  If we could just get
someone to do comparative study of the Canaanite neanderthals archeological
finds and skeletal structures and the neanderthals of Europe we might find
that they located there initially by traveling by ship and were Canaanite
(proto-Phonecian).  We may also find a tie in with Job chapter 30: 1Young
people now insult me,
   although their fathers
   would have been a disgrace
   to my sheep dogs.
    2And those who insult me
   are helpless themselves.
    3They must claw the desert sand
   in the dark
   for something
   to satisfy their hunger. [a] 4They gather tasteless shrubs
   for food and firewood,
    5and they are run out of towns,
   as though they were thieves.
    6Their only homes are ditches
   or holes between rocks,
    7where they bray like donkeys
   gathering around shrubs.
    8And like senseless donkeys
   they are chased away.

These "wild men" still exist today but are very rare--they are called
Almases.http://www.crystalinks.com/bigfoot.html--I would not, however, put
too much stock in the current Neanderthal connection least you stray from
your goals of explaining the ancient Neanderthals.  There may not be any
connection at all but this is interesting all the same.  These Almases used
to exist in Europe as well and may be decendants of the "wild men" job is
talking about and also may be related to Endiku of the Mesopotamian
Gilgamish epic.  However, you are going to get some very strange responses
when you start to pass around this type of information for evaluation.  All
the same it appears to be true that Almases exist and they are decendants of
the original "wild men", although the Neanderthal connection would at this
point be very very weak.

Here's from a website...

In the Caucasus, Almas (which in the Mongolian language means 'wildman') are
well known by the local people, who tell numerous stories of an apparent
familiarity between humans and these creatures. Eyewitness accounts dating
back hundreds of years describe Almas communicating with humans by means of
gestures. There were even stories of Almas bartering food for trinkets.
Adult Almases have been described as being at least 5 ft tall, shy, hairy,
with prominent eyebrow ridges, a receding chin and a jaw that protrudes out.
Other names by which these creatures are known, depending on the particular
region, are 'Wind-Man', Abnuaaya, Bekk-Bok, Biabin-Guli, Gul-Biavan,
Guli-Avan, Golub-Yavan, Kaptar, Kra-Dhan, Ksy-Giik or Ksy Gyik, Mirygdy,
Mulen and Voita.
Almas Timeline:
1420 - The first known printed reference on the Almas was made by a Bavarian
named Hans Schiltberger. He traveled through the Tien Shan mountains as a
captive to the Mongols. During his imprisonment he kept a journal in which
he wrote:
"In the mountains themselves live a wild people, who have nothing in common
with other human beings, a pelt covers the entire body of these creatures.
Only the hands and face are free of hair. They run around in the hills like
animals and eat foliage and grass and whatever else they can find. The Lord
of the Territory made Egidi a present of a couple of forest people, a man
and a woman, together with three untamed horses the sizes of asses and all
sorts of other animals which are not found in German lands and which I
cannot therefore put a name to."
1807-1867 - Sightings reported at Khalkha, the Galbin Gobi and Dzakh Soudjin
Gobi as well as in Inner Mongolia; also at the Gourban Bogdin Gobi, Chardzyn
Gobi and the Alachan desert.
Mid 1800s - A wild reddish-black hair covered woman with both mongoloid and
negroid features, dark skin, broad body, large hands and

Actually 1500 BC is the time period that is about the end of the long life
patriarches.  If you can find earlier references that would even be better
because most of them are right after the flood.

John Hext-Fremlin  wrote:

Thanks for letting me know Dan. Perhaps I should go as far back say as 1500
BC? John

dj:

Looks like you are copying someone elses quote below.  How is the Swanscombe
enigma solved?

Also, I did not get anything out of the article except is was interesting,
the part about the dragon like beasts living in or near the swamps.  That is
what you would expect at that time period.  What does this article have to
do with longevity?  I suggest that unless you can dial this in a little
closer to the research topic at hand that you give the "Mishupishu" search a
try because you have been "off topic" on every one of the links you have
sent me so far.

John Hext-Fremlin wrote:
Dan I sugest you look at this one on "Yao's Long Day" the Link is
((http://www.sunnyokanagan.com/joshua/joseph.html Note this is post flood
Longevity but also note in this connection that the dates are something that
are not desirable. By the way if we know how deep the stratum was in
Swanscombe Kent; and if we also know that some preflood stratum not
completely destroyed by thr flood with in two miles then the swanscombe
enigma is solved is'nt it? John I hope this is helpful.

You've definitely got your thinking cap on.  That is going to be the time
period that people lived long lives.  Now that we have gotten over the
initial hurdles of figuring out what you are looking for...  I will expect
some great "hits" on the internet.